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HONOURABLE DUFF ROBLIN (Premier) (Wolseley): We were having a very stimulating discussion before the committee arose on certain matters which are of great interest to the members of the committee, and the intervention of the dinner hour enabled all of us, I suppose, to reflect a little more completely on some of the points that were raised. And I think, perhaps I should like to make a comment in respect of what has taken place in the last little while.
First of all, I would like to make reference to the fact that in one of the opening speeches in the House which I know I'm really not allowed to refer to, the Leader of the Opposition made, I think, a statement that has much merit, that there should be some statement from the government as to its financial position in order to enable a sound opinion to be formed on the course which they intend to follow. And we are doing our best to accommodate him in that respect.
Then this afternoon another issue arose which required consideration, and that is whether it would be wise for the committee to proceed with interim supply at the present time. And without trying to restate all the arguments, I can simply observe that the Opposition parties felt that we should not proceed with interim supply until such time as the government's estimates had been placed before them, so they would have some idea of the total picture. But we did have the assurance that if the government undertook to follow this course, then they would be accommodating about supply when that came around. Our position here was, as the committee knows, that we didn't feel disposed to ask members of the committee to vote interim supply on the basis of the new budget, but rather on the old one. And our reasoning for that was that we felt that it was not quite right to ask members of the committee and of the House to vote supply on the new budget when everyone knows that the government does not hold the confidence of this House, at least not all together so far, and certainly not separately do we hold the confidence of the House. It seemed a bit thick to ask them to support an interim supply bill based on a new budget which might or might not be acceptable to the House. And that was the reason why, and I still think it's a very sound reason, why we wished to proceed on the basis of the old figures. However, the debate got a little more complicated after that and it seemed to be that it wasn't so much the old figures that were objected to or the new ones, but rather that the committee wished to have the government's statement of its revenue and estimates statement and the documents that go along with that.
Now, my feeling is that while I do not think that my position was unsound in this respect, nevertheless, in view of the discussion that has ensued and if it is the wish of the honourable gentlemen opposite to see the government's estimates before they proceed with interim supply, well I'm prepared to agree that we will proceed in that way. And that will mean that this committee has concluded its business with the supplementary estimates having been passed and we can drop the matter of interim supply at the moment, and we can rise and report and get on to our other business and see the estimates in due course. So if that is agreeable to the committee, I would move that the committee rise.
MR. D. L. CAMPBELL (Leader of the Opposition) (Lakeside): Just before that motion is put, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to express appreciation to the Honourable the First Minister for taking that action, because I really think it's the right one and I think it's a more orderly way to proceed. And certainly so far as the supplementary estimates are concerned, we'll be prepared to pass those through the various stages even tonight if the Honourable the First Minister wishes to do so. I don't know what his intentions are in that regard but we'll be able to carry on with those and then I presume we go the next motion on the Order Paper -- the one dealing with Rule 23. Is that correct?
MR. L. STINSON (Leader of the C.C.F. party) (Osborne): Mr. Chairman, I think we should clarify that now as to what the intention of the government is with respect to the next order of business. I think it's only fair that we should know what is in the mind of the First Minister about what happens next.
MR. ROBLIN: I'll do that. What I would suggest is that we accept the motion to rise and if the House will give me a few minutes to scurry back to my office and get the various motions
which unfortunately I left there, we would move the supplementary supply bill through all its stages tonight by unanimous consent.
I would then like to introduce a message from His Honour and table the estimates. Now my reading of the rules is that we can do that without violating Rule 23 that deals with the budget debate. We would not expect to commence the budget debate until Rule 23 motion has been disposed of. But I would be quite willing to bring in the message from His Honour and table the estimates and give the honourable members the weekend to look them over. And then on Monday we can deal with Rule 23 and see where we go from there.
MR. R. PAULLEY (Radisson): Mr. Chairman, do I understand that having received the message from His Honour, it would be the First Minister's intention to adjourn the House for this evening?
MR. ROBLIN: I'd be quite willing to do so if the honourable members wish it.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Shall the committee rise and report?
[Mr. Speaker resumes the Chair. ]
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Speaker, the Committee of the Whole has adopted certain resolutions and directed me to report the same.
DR. W. G. MARTIN (St. Matthews): Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable Member from Winnipeg Centre, that the report of the committee be received.
[Mr. Speaker presented the question. ]
MR. ROBLIN: Have we taken the question, Mr. Speaker?
MR. SPEAKER: I accepted ... we should put the question to ...
MR. ROBLIN: Yes, well then the next question is one for concurrence. I move, seconded by the Honourable the Minister of Mines and Natural Resources, that the Rules of the House be suspended and the resolutions reported from the Committee of Supply be now read a second time and concurred in.
MR. SPEAKER: I think maybe we should put the other motion to the House.
MR. ROBLIN: Yes, I'm sorry, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Are you ready for the question on the first motion?
[Mr. Speaker presented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried. ]
MR. SPEAKER: It has been moved by the Honourable the First Minister, seconded by the Honourable the Minister of Mines and Resources, that the Rules of the House be suspended and that the resolution reported from the Committee of Supply be now read a second time and concurred in.
MR. CLERK: Supplementary Estimates. Resolved that there be granted to Her Majesty a further sum not exceeding $3,000 for the Provincial Secretary for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March 1959. 2. Resolved that there be granted to Her Majesty a further sum not exceeding $443,500 for education for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March 1959.
Resolved that there be granted to Her Majesty a further sum not exceeding $5,935 for agriculture and immigration for the fiscal year ending 31st day of March 1959.
Resolved that there be granted to Her Majesty a further sum not exceeding $621,000 for health and public welfare for the fiscal year ending 31st day of March 1959.
Resolved that there be granted to Her Majesty a further sum not exceeding $1,000 for public works for the fiscal year ending 31st day of March 1959.
Resolved that there be granted to Her Majesty a further sum not exceeding $8,500 for municpal affairs for the fiscal year ending 31st day of March 1959.
Resolved that there be granted to Her Majesty a further sum not exceeding $112,650 for labour for the fiscal year ending 31st day of March 1959.
[Mr. Speaker presented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried. ]
MR. ROBLIN: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Honourable the Minister of Education, that Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair and the House resolve itself into a committee to consider of ways and means for raising of the supply to be granted to Her Majesty.
[Mr. Speaker presented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried. ]
MR. SPEAKER: Would the Honourable Member for St. Matthews take the Chair.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Resolved that towards making good certain further sums of money granted to Her Majesty for the public service of the province for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March 1959, the sum of $1,195,580 be granted out of Consolidated Funds. Will you rise and report? Call in the Speaker.
[Mr. Speaker resumes the Chair. ]
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Speaker, the Committee of Ways and Means has adopted a certain resolution and directed me to report the same.
MR. MARTIN: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Roblin, that the report of the committee be received.
[Mr. Speaker presented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried. ]
MR. ROBLIN: I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable, the Attorney-General, that the Rules of the House be suspended and that the resolutions reported from Committee of Ways and Means be now read a second time and concurred in.
[Mr. Speaker presented the motion. ]
MR. CLERK: Resolved that towards making good certain further sums of money granted to Her Majesty for the public service of the province for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March 1959, the sum of $1,195,580 be granted out of Consolidated Funds.
[Mr. Speaker presented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried. ]
MR. ROBLIN: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable the Minister of Health and Public Welfare, that the Rules of the House be suspended and that leave be given to introduce a bill, No. 53, an act for granting to Her Majesty certain further sums of money for the public services of the province for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March 1959.
[Mr. Speaker presented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried. ]
MR. ROBLIN: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable the Minister of Labour, that the Rules of the House be suspended and that Bill No. 53, and act for granting to Her Majesty certain further sums of money for the public services of the province for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March 1959 be now read a second time.
MR. SPEAKER: Are you ready for the question?
MR. CAMPBELL: Mr. Speaker, that bill as is usual in this case has just been placed on our desks. I'm assuming that everything in the bill is exactly as it was in the estimates that we had before us and under those circumstances I was even going to dispense with having the bill before us, but I see we now have it.
MR. ROBLIN: Mr. Speaker, I suppose if I say anything I close the debate. Is there anyone else who wishes to speak before I do so?
MR. STINSON: I might say that I'm amazed at the atmosphere that prevails here, and the Honourable the Leader of the Opposition is so genial and so accommodating that he'll even pass a bill without even looking at it. Oh! I understand of course why, and I wouldn't want anyone who reads Hansard to think that this was meant in any critical way. So that I just rise to concur on what is taking place.
MR. ROBLIN: Mr. Speaker, I think that one thing that could never be said of the Honourable the Leader of the Opposition was that he would give a bill of this nature a cursory glance. I know that he has studied the resolution carefully when it was in committee and the bill is the same as the resolution in committee, so I think we can take it as agreed that the items concerned have received a pretty thorough discussion this afternoon. I don't always rise to the defense of the Honourable the Leader of the Opposition but I felt that tonight he was really entitled to that little word.
MR. SPEAKER: Are you ready for the question?
[Mr. Speaker presented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried. ]
MR. ROBLIN: Mr. Speaker, did the resolution include a reference to referring the bill to Committee of the Whole? I hope that it did. I would like to see that was there. Yes -- Committee of the Whole.
MR. SPEAKER: Committee of the Whole House.
MR. ROBLIN: I move that Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair and the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole, seconded by the Honourable the Attorney-General.
MR. SPEAKER: It has been moved by the Honourable, the First Minister, seconded by the Honourable, the Attorney-General, that the Rules of the House be suspended and Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair and the House resolve itself into committee to consider the following bills: No. 53, an act granting to Her Majesty further sums of money for the public services of the province for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March 1959. Are you ready for the question?
[Mr. Speaker presented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried. ]
MR. SPEAKER: Would the Honourable Member for St. Matthews take the Chair.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Section 1 of the bill; Section 2 of the bill; Section 3; Section 4; Section 5; Schedule A; Preamble; Title. Would you rise and report. Call in the Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Committee of the Whole House has passed certain sections of the bill and asked me to report the same.
MR. MARTIN: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Roblin, that the report of the committee be received.
[Mr. Speaker presented the motion and following a voice vote declared the motion carried. ]
MR. ROBLIN: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable the Provincial Secretary, that the Rules of the House be suspended and that Bill No. 23, an act for granting to Her Majesty certain further sums of money for the public service of the province for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March 1959, be now read a third time and passed.
[Mr. Speaker presented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried. ]
MR. ROBLIN: Mr. Speaker, I have a message from His Honour, the Lieutenant-Governor.
MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable J. S. McDiarmid, Lieutenant-Governor. The Lieutenant-Governor transmits to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, estimates of sums required for the services of the province for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March 1960, and recommends these estimates to the Legislative Assembly.
MR. ROBLIN: I move that the message of His Honour and the estimates accompanying the same be referred to the Committee of Supply, and the motion is seconded by the Honourable, the Minister of Public Utilities.
[Mr. Speaker read the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried. ]
MR. SPEAKER: Would the Honourable Member for St. Matthews take the Chair.
MR. ROBLIN: No, Mr. Speaker, it's just referred to the committee. I'm not proposing tonight to move that the committee should actually be convened, because that would require the budget speech which I'm not in a position to give at the moment, owing to the rules.
Now, at this point, Mr. Speaker, I refer to the question raised by the Honourable, the Leader of the C.C.F. party in which he asks what we would do after we rose from committee, and I said that if it was the wish of the House, we would rise at this stage. However, I do offer this suggestion. It didn't really, I wasn't sure we'd be so expeditious as we have been, and I'm quite prepared, if the House wishes to call the order of business either for Rule 23 or for the Throne Speech debate, or both, and if the House is willing, I'd be quite prepared to move the motion on Rule 23, and we could see what debate transpires from that. But I do recognize that I said that we would consult the House on this, and I will be guided by the opinion expressed here.
MR. CAMPBELL: Mr. Speaker, as the Honourable Minister, the Leader of the C.C.F. party has said, we seem to be in a most agreeable mood since the dinner adjournment, and I have no wish whatever to hold up the work of the House. The Honourable First Minister is anxious to proceed with that debate. I would be quite willing on the other hand, -- I think maybe some of the folks have the feeling that there was going to be an adjournment and if that is the wish of the House, here again, I'm perfectly willing. I'm the most co-operative fellow in the world. Certainly the most co-operative one on either of the front rows.
MR. ROBLIN: My hope would be that we would agree to get a little more business done tonight, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Does the Honourable the Leader of the C.C.F. wish to speak?
MR. STINSON: Mr. Speaker, the Honourable the First Minister is the most energetic man I know. Do you want a perfectly honest opinion? My inclination is to have the night off. Do you know, I think if we had a free vote on this, including the Press Gallery, that it would be almost unanimous?
MR. ROBLIN: You don't want to sit?
MR. R. W. BEND (Rockwood-Iberville): ... here, but wouldn't this be a nice note to quit on now that we feel so well towards each other for the Easter weekend and then we can begin hostilities again on Monday.
MR. PAULLEY: ... contention of the Honourable Member for Rockwood-Iberville, I
know a few of my colleagues here out of the hearing of our leader has expressed the same desire to me, and I've also heard the same comment from some of the other honourable gentlemen to my right. I think it would be a very good Easter egg to go home and hatch over what has transpired here today.
MR. ROBLIN: It seems, Mr. Speaker, that the sentiment of opinion seems to be veering now toward the proposal that we should adjourn and in the spirit of the occasion I'm not going to stand in the way of that. I trust that over the Easter Weekend that all members of the House will have some moment for refreshment and reflection on the issues that bring us together and other matters of personal concern in such a season and time of the year. I wish them well for the Easter holiday, and may I say I hope that after our religious devotions have been attended to and other matters of that sort, that members will find time to cast an eye on the estimates that they have now received and to digest the splendid proposals that we are going to ask them to agree to.
Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Honourable the Minister of Mines and Natural Resources, that the House do now adjourn until 2:30 Monday afternoon.
[Mr. Speaker presented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried and the House adjourned until 2:30 Monday afternoon. ]
Page revised: 22 September 2009
